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5 comments

  1. § Pagan_hunter said on :
    ****-
    I believe Isaac Bonewits coined the term "neo-pagan" and he uses it in a rather different way than you do.

    He doesn't use it as "non-denominational", rather almost all modern denominations would be considered sub-sets of "neo-Paganism".

    He uses a historical three tiered system for classifying paganism through the ages. Under his system, the pagans of ancient pre-christian Europe were Paleo-Pagans, the victorian-era quasi-pagan groups, like the masons were Meso-Pagans, and the Neo-Pagans are part of a modern attempt to revive the best parts of the Paleo-Pagan religion that started around the time of Gerald Gardener.

    In closing, I would also object to the gross generalization that American pagans are ignorant of pagan history.
  2. § alyce wiggins Email said on :
    *****
    Dear reverend, im new at witchmoot, but have read your explanations, with great interest, let me introduce myself, my name is Alyce j. Wiggins, or willow as most of my pagan friends know me,I am a solitare,but do attend rutuals, with others,i have been a high priestress when called upon, i am however a crone, or elder as i prefer to this name rather than crone. I was initiated in 1963,and am now 66 years of age, let me share one thing,i also am native american, and have found that paganism is the closest to the shamanic, ways of old, the earth is our mother,and the elements are my deities ,this my dear is my religion,my daily prayers, although i do practice magic, and am refered to as a witch, the main thing i practice is spirituality,i live my life, with my god/goddess with in me daily, and satan ,i dont believe in, the evil that men/woman do is within themselves, i really enjoy your writings, what you have to say, is very important, have you thought of putting them in book form,just the way you right them, the younger/neopagan need someone of your insight,to help them. you are someone they could benefit from, blessed be to you and yours. sincerely yours, alyce/willow
  3. § Rev. Brandon Baranowski® Email said on :
    Thank you both Pagan_hunter and Willow!

    First, I would like to say that Pagan_hunter is correct. I have read about Gerald Gardener and the definitions he has shared. However, the issue I have with defining paganism in that manner is it assumes that at one point in time Paganism ceased to have followers, and I don't believe this to be true. There have been plenty of recorded witch hunts and other persecutions during these supposed inactive times. Pagans were forced to hide their beliefs and therefore were not in the media a whole lot.

    Now Miss Willow, it means a lot to me that you appreciate what you read here. I am in the process of self-publishing my first book right now. I have an illustrator drawing pictures for it and I'm attempting to save the money to pay for the printing of the book. I hope to have some copies out after the new year. I am forced to self-publish because my writings are considered too controversial for mainstream media and have been turned down by publishers and agents (they claim they have no need for my subject). So hopefully I will have a book out in the near future and I of course will share it's release date on here.

    Once again, thank you both for your time and intelligent responses.
  4. § Pagan_hunter said on :
    Brandon-

    you said:
    "it assumes that at one point in time Paganism ceased to have followers, and I don't believe this to be true."

    The validity of this statement depends on how you define "Paganism" and "followers".

    "Paganism" originally referred to any non-abrahamic religion. Obviously many such religions have survived continuously since antiquity.

    However, let us throw out that definition of "Paganism" and instead use the one more commonly used today which is something like "The religions of pre-Christian Europe"

    Secondly, "followers" could take on several different definitions. The most broad would be something like "a person who observes Pagan traditions". By this definition Paganism certianly has had a continuous stream of followers because many Pagan traditions (Yule and Ostara come to mind) were absorbed into Christianity. Still more traditions like May Day and wicker man survived as local customs.

    However, let us restrict the definition to something like "A person who considers themselves to be a member of a Pagan religion" [as defined above]

    If we use these definitions for "followers of Paganism" then there definitely was a period the early centuries CE until roughly the late 19th century where none existed.

    (most meso-pagans considered themselves to be Christians and thought of their Pagan groups as more philosophical than religious)

    what about all the evidence to the contrary of what I'm saying?

    As for the witch hunts and the inquisition, it has been widely established that these were mostly used as political tools to crush opposition to the church. And by opposition, I don't mean worshiping Pan and Diana, I mean something more like insisting that the earth travels around the sun.

    There were also many tragic cases recorded where superstitious clergymen put women to death using things like birthmarks and the presence of black cats as "proof" that they were witches.

    If people were being caught making offerings to Cernunous on Samhain, the clergy certianly would have written it down in the "court" (I use the term VERY loosely) records. No one ever did. I urge you not to take my word for this and go pick up one of the many books on the subject.

    What about the supposed "fam-trad" witches, dozens of authors among them? I'm afraid its simply never panned out when investigated. Every time someone has claimed to have had ancient Pagan traditions passed down their family tree through the dark ages it has turned out to be either an outright lie, or nothing more than a campfire story their great uncle told.

    and sadly, all the notions of a European "witch-cult" surviving through the middle ages cited these "fam-trad" stories as their source material. Several prominent scholars have looked for it and there is simply no evidence that Pagan religions survived into the dark ages in tact.

    Bonewits has a clever saying that goes something like:

    "The only REAL fam-trad witches are twenty-somethings who grew up going to Wicca Sabbats with their parents"
  5. § Rev. Brandon Baranowski® Email said on :
    It's cool if you disagree with my definition, however, I will attempt to clarify for my readers. People may not have continually prayed to Zeus and Odin (I cannot prove either way, especially since most Pagan religions were passed down orally and not recorded), but as I defined Paganism as a folk-religion, my definition is not contingent on any deity. People throughout history have continually used "practical magic," that is the "communication" with the Earth to ensure a certain result, such as, a farmer growing produce or using herbal remedies (And practical magic is not necessarily anything found in a spell book, it could be any form of psychodrama that yields a similar result). Since Paganism is mainly about a direct relationship with nature, no matter what name a person gives to a deity, spirit, or force, then Paganism has indeed existed and continues to exist. Yes, since the 60's there has been a return to many traditional religions, deities, and supposed rituals/ceremonies. However, this does not mean that people did not still celebrate the traditional Pagan holidays or perform what some would consider and what later became "nature magic," who were not of any other religious belief (since many religions have their own form of "magic" or charismata). Furthermore, like Willow stated earlier, she is Native American and would consider her Shamanic religion to be very Pagan indeed, and if you removed the "shaman" from the tribe, it would be Pagan. So the point I'm trying to make is, your statements and point-of-view is indeed a valid one (and I wouldn't necessarily have an issue of being defined as thus in the dictionary), but the insinuation that my explanation is somehow false is not. As you stated, it is dependent on what you consider to be Pagan. It is always hard to define such a broad subject, and my intent was never to limit the boundaries, because realistically, people shouldn't limit themselves to a definition. Once again, thank you very much for your input, I have greatly appreciated it.

    P.S. To those Pagan Americans, I did not mean to insinuate that all American Pagans or even a majority of them did not know the history of Paganism, I was explaining that the majority of Pagan Americans that I have had the honor of meeting seemed to have a lack of knowledge on the subject.

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